Or does prayer mean something else also to the 5 Pt Calvinist too?

With the attitude some Calvinist communicate it is like they are denying,

"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

And instead are insisting, The Elect shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, properly interpreted according to 5 point Calvinism.

And in so doing they act as a hindrence to people simply reading for themselves the Scripture and learning from God as the Holy Spirit gives them understanding of the truth in understandable words that do not have to be "mystically" interpreted is right there in front of them.

How it must grieve the Holy Spirit to see people claim over and over again what He moved the writes of Scripture to put down say that it really doesn't mean what it says, think.

Please understand to say "world" meant "elect" to a Jewish man who had never heard of John Calvin nor the 5 Points is a gross twisting of reality. It is also insulting to claim that Jesus said things and didn't really mean what He was saying. Why would you do that? Think.

However, Joe, I did not ask you how limited the prayers of Jesus are but how limited the love of God is. Certainly Jesus prays for those who draw near to God through Him and No! And when He prays for His disciples He makes a distinction between them and the world. But does that mean God had no love at all for the world????

"Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Scripture tells me,
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

My hope and it is Praise God! a most certain and sure one is that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, even a wretch like me, and being raised from the dead He, the Son of the Living God, is more than able to.

Also Scripture tells me,
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

Joe since you have already shown that you would do such a thing in arguing John 3:16 doesn't mean what it says by your actions you have already told me it would be a vain thing to answer your questioning.

I think your understanding of the love of God, and for that matter the Word of God, the justice of God, along with the grace of God, etc.

Do you realize what you are doing? Your comments show that you presume that you can tell Jesus Christ what the words that He said mean. This is the same kind of thing the Pharisees were doing with the Sabbath and the Law of Moses.

Let me suggest if the theological system you have thought was accurate and correct has motivated you to do such a thing you just might want to reconsider and repent

Have you not read your own Bible?

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

Interesting Jesus seems to give people a choice in the matter. Too bad it doesn't redily comform to those whose dogmatic theology demands a different opinion, think.

Just looked that the 5 Solas that you gave me.

I simply had another list of the 5 basic beliefs of the "Protestant Reformation" which only touched on 4 of them that is all.

Would you like to say Church Leadership should omit preaching speaking on personal repentance?????

As to Soli Deo Gloria, Soley to the Glory of God, are you bent out of shape that God just might be glorified in the reality that He is worthy to be trusted in for salvation by those who cannot save themselves, and that those who trust Him and are saved by Him might just now love Him out of gratitude for His undeserved love?

"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

Seems you are quite zealous for God but your knowledge of Him is twisted with having to comform to a particular theological dogmatism, think.

I have to think if any promoting a theological system cannot get it right on something so clear as this what else have they not gotten it right on? And even more why would they promote it?

Wow!
Faith arises out of our human nature?
I'd never have thought that after all doesn't the Holy Spirit who moved Paul to write Romans move Paul to write, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

In my simple words faith comes by hearing the Word of God, which is Truth, spoken by the Almighty Sovereign Creator and Ruler of the Universe and is therefore entirely trustworthy as He is faithful to make good His Word.

Apparently the Holy Spirit gives us understanding hearing the word of God is what gives/produces faith it is not an act of human will that some falsely claim that it is.

As to idolatry, if I exalt my beloved Baptist Church, or Fundemental Baptist Teaching as the only true Christian Church/Teaching to which everyone else must bow in alligiance or be called heretic you might hopefully understand where I am coming from when it comes to making idols of men, their teachings and the movements named after them.

Again I apologize that this kind of discussion can lead to misunderstandings because like with Roman Catholics who are quite false they nevertheless do have a knowledge of some of the basics of God, example the Trinity and the Virgin Birth and the people I have had trouble with are those similarly who have a certain knowledge of Christ and who then dogmatically make their own beliefs on par with Scripture if not actually superior to it, maybe not with their words but their attitudes and treatment of others.

You all have a problem and it isn't that you are reading for yourself the Word of God and trusting that God, who truly is Sovereign, just not in your opinion of what that may be, has said what He means and means what He says.

Pathfinder, former never to be again Roman Catholic here. Having been raised Catholic it has allowed me to have some quite up front and personal observation of Out And Out Idolatry in motion. It is a horrible heartbreaking thing to see sincere Roman Catholic people bowing in worship to their "Beloved Idols". And just speak ill of one of their "Precious Idols" and you might see the hatred they really have of the Truth.

And now another group bows to it Idols, not made with stone and wood but with the intellect of man, and if anyone tilts one of their precious false beliefs it can make them quite upset.

Personal Repentance – Something no one else can do for us, not even God. He may grant you repentance, even so convict by the Holy Spirit that you know you will perish in hell if you don’t. It is a turning from a self centered disobedient living for yourself to now live under the authority of and for Jesus Christ. Far more than attending church or getting religious.

Grace Alone – Being in hopeless guilt before Him, your repentance doesn’t save you from your sins. God Himself must do this – forgiving, cleansing you of sins, giving you new birth in the Holy Spirit, making you His beloved child forever. Things impossible for anyone else in heaven or on earth to do for you

Faith Alone – The only way we may receive the gift of God eternal life. God must provide and give it and He does. We must trust Him for it.