ACTUALLY ... it will be found in God's Word.

Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares ... ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness ... "

... as the CCMists rose to power, infesting churches with Rock 'n' Roll.

Daniel 3:7 "Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, AND ALL KINDS OF MUSICK, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image ... "

Of course, ONE thing's missing from TODAY'S musical cacaphony:

... while the watered-down "sermons" the CCMists preach get shorter every week, giving way to even more gimmicks, dancing and pop-culture plays.

Revelation 13:15 "And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

Hypnotized by endless repetitions of Rock-Music Choruses, the victims of the CCMists stand in congregations of the tens of thousands, ready and willing for the next "big thing" to come down the pike of CCMist invention; and all the while, "ALL KINDS OF MUSICK" will be playing.

We'll have to let P.O.D. be responsible for their own behaviour.

... because only God is in a position to do any condemning.

But to place in a position of ministerial leadership to children, any person -- no matter what instrument they play -- who advocates P.O.D. and in turn, Marilyn Manson ...

... I mean, does one have to actually declare that WRONG, out loud? Is that how far we've come?

Okay: Marilyn Manson of the Church of Satan, who aspires to be "remembered as the person who brought an end to Christianity", is NOT a good example for children to follow.

There.

And maybe if all the millions of CCMists who've taken control of America's churches via the power given to them by Rick Warren simply CANNOT understand that ...

... cannot see ANY connection between embracing secular music, then making church music sound like it, and the millions of America's teenagers who are turning AWAY from Jesus ...

... then perhaps it is the time prophesied in the Bible:

Christians can certainly wear clothes -- especially given that God made sets for both Adam and Eve.

... but I don't recall the Lord teaching anyone in the Bible to behave like "Rock stars".

In fact, I think the Bible in both Testaments clearly explains that we're not supposed to behave like they do.

Yes ... one VERY IMPORTANT band in the world of contemporary Christian music.

A MAJOR influence on the "200,000 just this year" at Battle Cry -- and on MILLIONS more of the 33 million teenagers of whom the recent Barna poll predicted ONLY 4 percent will make it as adults into a mainstream evangelical church.

SEE?

Does ANYONE see?

Are there ANY grown-ups out there who loved rock 'n' roll, and then discovered they can "rock ass" in church these days and are so happy about that ...

... that would be WILLING to maybe give that up?

You know?

... so maybe some KIDS could LEARN the BIBLE without listening to the same kind of tunes as their friends who will never darken the door of a church?

ANYBODY?

I mean ... does ANYBODY realize that things are only getting WORSE?

There are plenty of missionaries, all around the world, leading -- praise God -- people to Jesus so that those dear brothers and sisters won't go to Hell.

... and the only sounds these humble women and men of God are often doing it to are the voices of the animals of the jungle and the wind.

Well ... NOT really.

Look again at the Battle Cry site:

http://battlecry.com/pages/atf_bands.php

The FIRST band, P.O.D., is the headliner -- one of the MAIN bands supposedly rejecting "MTV culture":

* P.O.D. has toured with vile rock bands such as Korn.

* In a 2001 interview with Shoutweb, members of P.O.D. (Sonny, Traa, and Marcos) cussed and otherwise demonstrated their worldliness even while claiming to love the Lord.

* Sonny said, "Jesus was the first rebel. He was the first punk rocker going against all the rest of it."

* Sonny made the following amazing statement: "I mean, I like Slayer. I like Manson. I like this music and this dark imagery."

* Sonny went on to admit that he not only listens to vile secular rock music, but he watches R-rated movies. (The members of P.O.D. also smoke.)

* When Marcos Curiel left the band in February 2003, he testified that P.O.D. is a party band and that he is tired of pretending to be one thing for the fans and then acting differently behind the scenes.

* P.O.D. guitarist Marcos stated their philosophy in these words: "Y’know, everyone is free to rock ass."

Paraphrased from David Cloud's article:

... why someone CALLING himself a "Christian" pastor -- Rick Warren -- why he REFUSES to tell Jewish people that Jesus Christ is the Messiah!

REFUSES to explain to them that rather than going to Hell, they can be saved!

Here he is teaching PHILOSOPHY to Jews -- his philosophy -- on how to get MORE unsaved people (Jews) into the synagogue rather than the church:

http://synagogue3000.org/video.html

AGAIN ... it's not about the music!

The Bible says that after he separated from Abram, Lot "pitched his tent toward Sodom".

Somehow, by the time the angels got to him, Lot was sitting "in the gate of Sodom".

The GATE!

... bringing the world's music into the church is a problem of TEMPTATION for people. Doesn't matter who did or didn't do that in the past, since the time of the Bible. They're dead.

Well ... you're right about ONE thing:

The whole "purpose" behind the "Christian Rock" movement was to use MAN'S ways to reach out to people who wanted nothing to do with Jesus.

Really, Cain's WAY versus Abel's.

... which takes us right back to: "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the WORD of GOD."

Had Rick Warren et al stuck with the Bible instead of POPULAR CULTURE as a means to an end, then the MEANS wouldn't have become the END that it obviously is today for many of the folks posting here about their LOVE of the world's music!

I'm reading about church being boring and stale because of the MUSIC.

How about our EXPERIENCE in Christ Jesus being exciting because of our GRATITUDE for what he did for us at Calvary?

And how about the rich understanding we get of God through his WORD?

And yeah ... there was some happy clappy hippie music around about 35 years ago. A handful of those songs found their way into many hymnals.

So? If something is true, it doesn't matter how "old" it is.

Fact is: Rock 'n' Roll has been around 50+ years. But within the last decade, there has been a SUDDEN and EXPLOSIVE change in music within American churches.

... MOST objective observers would declare Saddleback as the MAIN point from which the change spread directly to churches. Period.

Churches which didn't have a lot of pop/rock in their sanctuaries before, MORE THAN LIKELY did after the build-up to, and the culmination of a 40 Days of Purpose Campaign. THOUSANDS of churches have participated in this.

I have personally WITNESSED this.

But here's the deal: Not only did the style begin to change -- which, admittedly, happens over time in a trial and error fashion -- but guru Rick Warren granted APPROVAL to this sudden and dramatic change, and all the people looked at the big screen and said, "Amen".

You either agreed with the SUDDEN change, or you left your church.

It took nearly 200 years to go from Bach to Black Gospel.

It's taken maybe five to get to this:

http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/zombiegutz-07.m3u

... "newer" (2006!) "Christian music".

IT says "Teen Mania, one of the nation's largest youth organizations, OPENLY REJECTS the MTV culture. More than 200,000 teens just this year attended the organization's new Battle Cry stadium-worship events ... "

... and yet if you go battlecry.com and look around, it's CLEAR that they represent MORE of the same; pandering CULTURE to people with Christ.

Now, even babies love the MUSIC to "Jesus Loves Me". So do old people. So do many young Christians. It isn't REASONIBLY possible to suggest that there's ANYTHING devious, diabolical, threatening, of-the-devil or dangerous about that song.

Here are the last two lines:

"If I trust Him, when I die
He will take me home on high."

The gospel message such that a CHILD could understand it.

OKAY? Metal: That is an EXAMPLE of a "style" that is REASONIBLY speaking ... undeniably not "in love with the world."

Let me encourage you, FIRST, to learn about Jesus Christ. Read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Then worry about music.

Where do YOU draw the line? Or do you have a line?

(And I'm asking sincerely, because your post seemed very balanced and sincere).

Are you saying all "worship" is okay as long as it's being done in the name of Jesus? Can't you see the downward slide all this has taken in just a few short years?

Jesus said: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Just think about Rick Warren: He's the one really responsible for LEADING all the cacaphony -- and for unleashing this spirit of WORSHIPPING WORSHIP -- and where has all that led?

Here:

http://synagogue3000.org/video.html

... these are videos of Rick Warren (watch "Congregational Transitions") TEACHING our Jewish friends -- NOT how to be saved -- but how to get more unsaved people into a house of worship of unsaved people.

It's ALL about Church Growth -- except it doesn't matter WHAT church!

What does that sound like from Revelation?

What you implied in your most recent post is the exact OPPOSITE of what I said.

... I presumed you were sincerely asking a question and not simply trying to play games to make a point.

1 John 2:15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Rock 'n' roll has a STRANGE hold on people. They (probably didn't) read these words:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/hymn_details.asp?PID=jesuslovesme

... and yet, it's back to:

"So, we could have a song that sounds like ... thrash or post-hardcore ... and it would basically be alright."

Like a child saying: "Okay, if I do half my chores, can I watch half of the TV show?"

Anyone reading this, who is SINCERELY stuggling with this issue should purchase this video:

THEY SOLD THEIR SOULS FOR ROCK N' ROLL

from http://www.crosstv.com

... also David Cloud has some EXCELLENT articles on the subject, including:

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/ccm-musiciansloverock.html

Here's more:

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns-index/musicfbns.htm

The issue isn't whether or not you are "sinning" by playing guitar, the issue is that the Bible says you are on your way to Hell if you aren't saved.

Neither thing: What needs to reach our ears that we might have faith nor the tragic consequences resulting from lack of faith ... have to do with music.

Go to:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/hymnlist.asp

... and REALLY spend time reading the words to the many traditional hymns. There's often a sermon in every song.

For instance: "Jesus loves me" (read the lyrics to the whole song).

It's a pretty song, and it has a tremendous message … and unlike most contemporary Christian music, it would be nearly impossible to have it playing on the radio while in coitus or snorting cocaine -- and enjoy either.

When professing Christians CLING to pop/rock style music by insisting that it be brought into the church, and when those who are contemplating coming to church INSIST that they will only attend a church that plays pop/rock style music ...

The article says: "Teen Mania, one of the nation's largest youth organizations, openly rejects the MTV culture. More than 200,000 teens just this year attended the organization's new Battle Cry stadium-worship events ... "

Well, go to:

http://battlecry.com

... and look around. What do we see?