If you would be so kind I really do not appreciate being labeled an 'Arminian' whatever that is because I don't begin to call myself an arminian.

If you want to call me a non-Calvinist or even a heretic than you are free to do so but then you have to deal with my actual beliefs are rather than condemn me for what you imagine my beliefs to be.

Thanks

By the way I believe in John 3:16 the word world means just that, every single man, woman, girl and boy who has ever lived or ever will in all of history. I do not believe it mean "the elect" only or alone. So if this is heresy for "5 Point Calvinists" let them kindly refrain from 'Arminian Name Calling'.

God knows I appreciate people who are thankful to God for those who love God for having Jesus Christ to died for their sins so they could be forgiven and who want to share Him who alone can save us from our sins with others.

Besides being a former Roman Catholic I am aware one of the deceptions they use to try to get people back to Rome is to have them read or listen to Catholic apologists who are quite apt at twisting the Scriptures to make it seem that it say what Catholics believe. And even encourage things like pray the Rosary.

The truth of the matter is that I do already listen to people who would call themselves Calvinists however they do not attempt to lord it over the conscience of others.

There is a bid difference there.

Besides do you not believe God? Specifically 2 Tim 3:16,17. I thought you "Elect Calvinists" were real big on the Sovereignity of God and that He could do anything?

God speaks to man
The Holy Spirit convicts man of sin
God reveals Christ to those helpless to save themselves lost in their sin and guilt
Jesus Christ is faithful to the very will of God to save anyone who comes to Him in the faith which God Himself gives

So who is doing "the work" here for salvation? Man or God? Who is blessed to receive from the work done? Very much those who trust in Christ. And God who is love rejoices over the one who repents and does not perish.

This is something we should be very careful of - lost people can enjoy, can be entertained by Christian songs, hymns and even the Psalms straight out of Scripture.

Do you remember,
"And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him."

I would think Christian music can even be "soothing" to an ungodly sinner afflicted by and under the influence of Satan. But it won't last even like it didn't in Saul's life.

No wonder so many of the "modern apostate churches" make such an emphasis on music.

We non-Calvinists sure do!!! Except what we do doesn't really qualify as "works".

We must hear God. Something no man can do unless God speaks with him.

We must agree with the Holy Spirit in His conviction of us a what we truly were - wretched vile sinners unable to offer anything to God to make ourselves right with Him, even the utter brokeness and godly sorrow of our sins that the conviction of the Holy Spirit brings about
(have you had this conviction? )

we must repent, turn from disobedience and especially the attitude of disobedience to surrender to the authority of Jesus Christ to be the rightful ruler of our lives to whom we owe our loyalty, alligence, obedient service and love. But even in this repentance as right as it is doesn't save us, God Himself must do that.

We must believe in Christ who God reveals to us and trust in Him and in Him plus nothing to save us from our sins. Something He is so willing to do for us who so do not deserve it.

I probably would believe you EXCEPT "the Calvinist" I am referring to speak little of the cross, or the shed blood of Christ, or the terribleness of their sin against God, the joy they did not deserve when they repented and cried out to God to save them from their sins and how they cannot help but tell everyone how good it is to be saved and how others can be saved too.

And yes even in how you write of born again and word it such as to give the impression it happens before hearing of Christ, before believing on Him for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of eternal life takes away from the reality that after one has repented and believed on Christ and is saved, born again of the Holy Spirit they then are able to understand the Scriptures to a depth the unsaved never will be able to.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

Have you dared to believe the staggering truth that The Almighty Sovereign God means what He says in Scripture and Scripture says what He means, even that He loves the whole world and doesn't desire for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

I am so surprised at you my friend believing God's Word and not what all these educated religious experts are telling you it means. How could you be so humble to think the Word of God is Truth?

Just who do you think you are some kind of wretched sinner who simply did not deserve that Jesus would die for you and that your sins against Him were so inexcusable that it broke your heart and you just had to call out to Him to save you from your sins and give you eternal life?

I know, I know, you'll be telling me there was absolutely nothing you could do to save yourself but Jesus was more than able and that He had willingly died and shed His blood for you.

Next thing you are liable to be telling everyone that He is good and He is ready to forgive and that He abounds in mercy to all who call upon Him.

Anyway as beloved as C.H. Spurgeon was I still prefer The Word of God over C.H.'s word.

The True Church made up of those born again of the Holy Spirit is the Bride of Christ.

If the "church" is married to the state she has become a whore.

Rev 18:4,5
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

Are you trying to be humorous?
Actually Yamil has been laboring with a subject that directly affects church government and especially church leadership.

In John 3:16 does "the world" mean every single man, woman, girl and boy who has ever been born or ever will? or just an "elect" few?

This has great ramifications to those seek to be obedient to Christ and to His word, for if God doesn't love "the whole wide world" are we disobedient and disloyal to Him if we love someone God Himself chooses to hate and predestinate to hell forever before they were ever born and use His Socereign power to ensure that.

You can probably tell I don't believe that.

Lord it over the faith of others?

Let the members of a church do whatsoever they feel like is right or good at the moment?

Make a separation between the "clergy" and the "laity"?

There is more to church government than just having man who are called "elders".

First if we are genuinely born again we are in a learning process and like children we don't always get it right the first time but that He is quite long suffering and will discipline His own and bring them back. (Those who are without His discipline are not His children.)

Second even if you have the right church government if those in positions of authority and leadership neglect feeding the sheep the Word of God, especially the identity of Christ, who He is, what He has done, is doing now, and will do in the future, who God Himself makes us in Him at new birth and what God Himself gives us in Christ and what God expects of us to walk in obedience to His will for us in Christ...

these starved sheep are in danger of being destroyed (God does tell us My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.)

Of course tied into feeding sheep a faithful shepherd in this case and undershepherd will protect the flock from false teaches, not merely argue with other believers who have their own personal preferences.